Couple of newbie questions

[SumZero]

On changing lines. There are two cases of changing lines that don't make any sense to me.

1. Baseball bets that don't fix the starting pitcher

It seems that a lot of books take a baseball bet where you take team vs. team without specifying the starting pitcher. However, if the starting pitcher changes then the book has the right to change the line after you bet it so your bet of $100 at +145 could become $100 at -90. Why does it work like this? It seems unfair. Are they worried about people with inside information (like the non-public health of a pitcher) profiting?

2. "Obvious" bad lines

A bunch of onlines books seem to reserve the right to change "obvious" bad lines and don't explain what obvious means. I don't understand why they should have that right, especially when their "obvious" bad lines are only slightly bad or are stale. Shouldn't that be their responsibility to keep their lines sane, and adjust them quickly if they notice they are out of whack or getting 1-sided action. It seems to me that if there is a line that is up I should be able to play it. At least if it is within a couple orders of magnitude of correct. Otherwise how do I know if I've done good line shopping only to get my line changed to a line I wouldn't bet on.

Anyone able to explain these questions for me?

 

[SumZero]

bump.

I realize it might be just "the way things are" but if anyone has any insight (even if half baked) I'd appreciate hearing it.

 

[SportSavant]

1) most books offer 'action' or 'listed' if you choose action, it means you do not care who is pitching, if there is a change in pitcher then you still have 'action' but at the NEW odds... You can even specify ONE PITCHER one one side & ACTION on the other.... (it is not unfair because you are getting the new ODDS based on the new pitcher), in your example above, a bet going from +145 to -190, would only happen if you had an ACE going in instead of a BUMB, so obviously your chance of winning is greater, the bookies are ethically obliged to give you fair MARKET odds on the new pitcher)

it is rare that the bookie does not give you the choice to choose ACTION or LISTED.... some bookies have it just one way or another, but only smaller books.

2)what they mean by 'Obvious' is if they have the line listed at +7 but it was supposed to be -7 (odds reveresed), this is the 'Obvious' bad line rule. IT woudnt be applicable IMO if a Book had -5.5 with everyone else at -7.....

 

[100KbyXMAS]

arty:

 

[Derek12]

On changing lines. There are two cases of changing lines that don't make any sense to me.

1. Baseball bets that don't fix the starting pitcher

It seems that a lot of books take a baseball bet where you take team vs. team without specifying the starting pitcher. However, if the starting pitcher changes then the book has the right to change the line after you bet it so your bet of $100 at +145 could become $100 at -90. Why does it work like this? It seems unfair. Are they worried about people with inside information (like the non-public health of a pitcher) profiting?

2. "Obvious" bad lines

A bunch of onlines books seem to reserve the right to change "obvious" bad lines and don't explain what obvious means. I don't understand why they should have that right, especially when their "obvious" bad lines are only slightly bad or are stale. Shouldn't that be their responsibility to keep their lines sane, and adjust them quickly if they notice they are out of whack or getting 1-sided action. It seems to me that if there is a line that is up I should be able to play it. At least if it is within a couple orders of magnitude of correct. Otherwise how do I know if I've done good line shopping only to get my line changed to a line I wouldn't bet on.

Anyone able to explain these questions for me?

1. It is not unfair. Lines on Baseball are set up based on the pitchers performance, therefore if there is a pitching change the line MUST be adjusted depending on the new pitcher no questions asked.

2. I work on lines and let me tell sometimes it might be the line mover's fault, but as you should know most sportbooks move their lines based on Don Best...and DB is not 100% accurate, indeed they make mistakes all the time and sometimes someone follows them. So what? we can't stop minor mistakes from happening, besides a good gambler knows when there is an "obvious" bad line, but they take it anyways, because if they lose they could claim their money back " I didnt know i was getting a bad line Sir i didn't want that bet" they say....but if the bet is a winner They won't say a damn thing...(I'm not saying thats your case, though)...but you CAN'T have it both ways...that's why wagers with bad lines are deleted.

 

[20Five]

I think he sounds more worried that the book might be able to have it both ways with any line being considered a 'bad line' after the fact.. of course they collect if you lose, but in the case you win they can goto that.

From what Ive seen around it seems if you do catch one of these bad lines and you can report it in time, the book will usually throw you a Bonus Play or even some free cash (usually a very small amount.. $10-$25)

 

[Derek12]

We wont have it both ways either, indeed we delete the plays long before the game goes off the board, we call the customers and put up a flag so they know they had a bad line.

So customers have time to place their bets again....correctly. :digit:

 

[SumZero]

1. It is not unfair. Lines on Baseball are set up based on the pitchers performance, therefore if there is a pitching change the line MUST be adjusted depending on the new pitcher no questions asked.

But other non-pitchers can be injured too. Or the star QB and RB in a football game. I see why the line should change after this news comes out on bets that are placed AFTER the information is known. I just don't see why it should change bets placed BEFORE the information is known. And in a case where it is uncertain I don't see why that uncertainty shouldn't be reflected in the line. Are there any other sports like that where if a player misses the game the bet is either cancelled or the odds are changed after the fact?

2. I work on lines and let me tell sometimes it might be the line mover's fault, but as you should know most sportbooks move their lines based on Don Best...and DB is not 100% accurate, indeed they make mistakes all the time and sometimes someone follows them. So what? we can't stop minor mistakes from happening, besides a good gambler knows when there is an "obvious" bad line, but they take it anyways, because if they lose they could claim their money back " I didnt know i was getting a bad line Sir i didn't want that bet" they say....but if the bet is a winner They won't say a damn thing...(I'm not saying thats your case, though)...but you CAN'T have it both ways...that's why wagers with bad lines are deleted.

I don't want it both ways. What I want is that if I agree to a bet amount and line that I get that bet amount and line. If it is a bad line in my favour I should get to keep the bet. If it is a bad line against me I should get to keep the bet. Unlike #1 this is something that seems different between offline and online betting.

 

[Derek12]

Those are Vegas rules on BASEBALL my firend. Nothing we can do about it.

Accepted Baseball Wagers
​

Baseball wagers will be accepted in any of the following manners:

• Action- Team against team, regardless of starting pitcher.
• One specified pitcher- This is a wager on or against on specified pitcher.regardless of the other starting pitcher.
• Both specified pitcher- If starting pitchers are not exactly as quoted, your wager will be deemed 'no action'.

Note: IN the event there is a pitching change prior to the game, money odds may be adjusted. If one scheduled pitcher starts against an unscheduled pitcher, 'action' wagers will be computed by the opening price with the new pitcher.

A pitcher is deemed a starting pitcher after throwing one pitch.

 

[SumZero]

I agree #1 is (even though it doesn't make sense compared to all the other players who could be injured and other sports).

But #2 isn't.

 

[Derek12]

OK...But just for you to know.#1 Regrettably, there will always be pitching changes in different games and customers getting the proper ajusted lines on those....and #2 bad lines.. well what can I say...we are humans. I hope you dont get many.

Good luck buddy.